Yeast splitting

Yeast splitting

Postby Tony » Sun Jan 09, 2011 8:35 am

Hi all

I'm going to try splitting my yeasts from now on but my next batch is an oatmeal stout using wyeast 1084 - Irish Ale. Next brew planned after that is a crisp (high-hop) pale ale - has anyone used this yeast in a pale?
I've used this yeast in stouts before and it really is wonderful for that.
I usually only make a couple of batches of stout through the year so it's probably not worth doing if results are likely to be poor. Of course, I'm always up for experimenting, which I'll do if no one has experience of this :D
Beer will get you through the times of no money better than money will get you through the times of no beer (with grateful thanks to the Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers and slightly adapted)
User avatar
Tony
 
Posts: 1856
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2009 5:49 am

Yeast splitting

Postby greg » Sun Jan 09, 2011 8:51 am

Hi Tony,
Not tried that yeast myself but from the Wyeast Description you may have a few problems with it clearing in a pale ale although it does say it suitable for Imperial IPA's so it should be okay.
If you haven't already got the yeast then the other alternative is to use 1056 American Ale to make your stout. I used this in the Porter I made last year and it worked really well. That way you can then reuse the yeast to make several batches of Pale Ale as that is a great yeast especially for American style pales.
User avatar
greg
Site Admin
 
Posts: 2714
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:42 pm

Yeast splitting

Postby saracen » Sun Jan 09, 2011 12:50 pm

Not tried 1084, but looking at Wyeast's style and strain guides, 1318 London Ale III seems to be a good yeast for what you're doing, Tony. Floculation and Attentuation both high, and it's recommended for both the beers you are talking about. The 1056 is quoted as having a Medium - Low Floculation, so I wonder if it might be difficult to clear.
This is written above the Pier at Walton-on-the-Naze:
"The Happiest Sound in all the World is that of Children's Laughter."

E-mail: arnyfris at gmail dot com
User avatar
saracen
 
Posts: 6489
Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2010 3:22 pm
Location: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk

Yeast splitting

Postby Tony » Sun Jan 09, 2011 4:39 pm

Thanks both. Yes, I do already have the yeast... maybe this time I'll just use it 'as is' and split the next one.
Great advice (as usual)... many thanks!

Tony
Beer will get you through the times of no money better than money will get you through the times of no beer (with grateful thanks to the Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers and slightly adapted)
User avatar
Tony
 
Posts: 1856
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2009 5:49 am

Yeast splitting

Postby saracen » Mon Jan 10, 2011 5:07 pm

I've been splitting yeast for some while now and making each batch of Wyeast do several brews. However, my latest split doesn't seem to have gone well. It's about the 6th time, and there seems to be no sign of it starting up in the FV after 24 hours. Ok, it's not as warm as it should ideally be, but I made a starter, which also didn't look promising, and it should be going by now. I see no reason why you shouldn't be able to carry on doubling and splitting yeast as infinitum, but this time it's definitely not going well. Watch this space.
This is written above the Pier at Walton-on-the-Naze:
"The Happiest Sound in all the World is that of Children's Laughter."

E-mail: arnyfris at gmail dot com
User avatar
saracen
 
Posts: 6489
Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2010 3:22 pm
Location: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk

Yeast splitting

Postby greg » Mon Jan 10, 2011 5:42 pm

Most strains are only really capable for being resued about 4 or 5 times as they start to mutate so its advisable to go back to a pure strain after that many times.
This will depend on the strain and what has happened in previous fermentation's.
I would get another yeast in there Saracen before wild yeast have a chance to take control.
User avatar
greg
Site Admin
 
Posts: 2714
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:42 pm

Yeast splitting

Postby Tony » Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:31 pm

I've heard that about yeast mutating before and I'm sure I have a doc on it somewhere - just can't find it!
Saracen - care to share your technique? I was planning on making up a small started and upping it to a couple of ltrs after a couple of days. How do you do it and what quantities of spraymalt do you use and with how much water?
Beer will get you through the times of no money better than money will get you through the times of no beer (with grateful thanks to the Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers and slightly adapted)
User avatar
Tony
 
Posts: 1856
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2009 5:49 am

Yeast splitting

Postby saracen » Mon Jan 10, 2011 8:12 pm

Hi Tony. All I do is make up a 2 lt solution with boiled water and 200 gms of DME (should be SG 1040 or just below) and activate the pack of Wyeast. When the yeast pack starts to swell I pitch it into the DME. I then take 2 x 2 lt milk containers, washed and sterilised, and divide the DME + yeast solution between the 2. I use one after a couple of days to pitch in a brew and leave the other to complete the ferment. If you wanted to, you could add another 100 gm of DME + 1 lt of water to make the solution up to 2 lts to increase the pitching rate, but I've found the 1 lt to work well in 40 pts. Then, next time, do the same again. With recent experience I'd say doing this 4 to 5 times needs to be about the limit. I ran this method past Wyeast and they comfirmed it was correct.
Greg. As I split the original yeast and make the new cells from it rather than scraping it out of the FV, I can't really see there should be a mutation problem. However, there's nowt as queer as brewing', so who knows?Yes, quite agree a fresh yeast should go in, and provided you posted it today, it might get in there tomorrow. In the meantime ...... DON'T TOUCH THE LID!!
This is written above the Pier at Walton-on-the-Naze:
"The Happiest Sound in all the World is that of Children's Laughter."

E-mail: arnyfris at gmail dot com
User avatar
saracen
 
Posts: 6489
Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2010 3:22 pm
Location: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk

Yeast splitting

Postby Tony » Mon Jan 10, 2011 8:26 pm

:D Nice.. thanks for that. I was planning on making a starter, upping it after a couple of days to around 2 or 3 ltrs, leaving a week and then splitting half a dozen ways. Your way seems a lot more straightforward!
Beer will get you through the times of no money better than money will get you through the times of no beer (with grateful thanks to the Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers and slightly adapted)
User avatar
Tony
 
Posts: 1856
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2009 5:49 am

Yeast splitting

Postby saracen » Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:16 pm

It has it's merits. Tony. I suppose doing multiple starters would leave too many cultures standing around for too long. You could always gather it, wash it and store it all in 1 bottle in the fridge. On the plus side. I took my new culture I made from the other half of the sample which didn't start.... I think that's what I mean.... and it seems to be fermenting, so it's gone in the FV and I've still got a sample left to split next time, so maybe the 4 or 5 limit doesn't apply and it was me that screwed up. (I'm in danger of confusing myself, here!). I'm a little dazed as I've just been checking out the 18 year old Glenfiddich single malt my youngest son gave me for Christmas. He tried some while he was here..... AND POURED COKE IN IT!!! DIET COKE!!!
This is written above the Pier at Walton-on-the-Naze:
"The Happiest Sound in all the World is that of Children's Laughter."

E-mail: arnyfris at gmail dot com
User avatar
saracen
 
Posts: 6489
Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2010 3:22 pm
Location: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk

Yeast splitting

Postby Tony » Tue Jan 11, 2011 8:17 am

:lol:
Heathen!!!!
:D
Beer will get you through the times of no money better than money will get you through the times of no beer (with grateful thanks to the Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers and slightly adapted)
User avatar
Tony
 
Posts: 1856
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2009 5:49 am

Yeast splitting

Postby Tony » Thu Jan 13, 2011 2:33 pm

Managed to get some 1028 from a friend so I'm going to try that in this brew. If I do the starter tonight, with any luck I'll be ok to use half in my stout and the other half I'll divide 3 ways.
No DME so I'll make up some wort with some grain. Anyone have any advice for doing that - quantities and temp?
Thanks!
Beer will get you through the times of no money better than money will get you through the times of no beer (with grateful thanks to the Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers and slightly adapted)
User avatar
Tony
 
Posts: 1856
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2009 5:49 am

Yeast splitting

Postby greg » Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:12 pm

Just make it to 1.040 gravity and you should be fine. I would say 67c but never done it myself as I find DME a lot easier.
User avatar
greg
Site Admin
 
Posts: 2714
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:42 pm

Yeast splitting

Postby Bazza » Thu Jan 13, 2011 10:38 pm

Hi Tony,
The following steps are probably not wonderfully efficient but help me get a yeast starter of around 1040 gravity:-
Move yeast from fridge to bring up to room temp.
Boil 1.5L water in a pot and cool to required strike temp (about 70 degrees).

- measure out 180-200g grain

Add grain to pot of water and mash for 15 mins on low heat, stiring every 5 mins

Using sieve, pour wort from pot into a jug.

Rinse pot.

Keeping grains in sieve, pour wort from jug, through grains, into pot again, pouring evenly over grain bed.

Bring contents of pot to boil and boil for 15 minutes

- Dump grains and rinse sieve
Sterilise sieve, airlock, thermometer, bung and jug

Once boil is complete, cool contents of pot to < 25 degrees in sink of water and ice.

Sterilise demijohn (and hydrometer if taking gravity)
Pour wort from pot into jug through sterilised sieve

Rinse demijohn, etc and add attach bung and airlock

Allow grist to settle to bottom of jug and pour wort into demijohn, leaving grist behind

Top up to 1L if needed with cooled boiled water.
Add yeast to demijohn and leave in wardrobe at 18-22 degrees for 2-3 days
Hope this helps,
-Barry
He may look like an idiot and talk like an idiot but don't let that fool you. He really is an idiot.

-Groucho Marx
User avatar
Bazza
 
Posts: 619
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2009 2:51 pm
Location: Belfast

Yeast splitting

Postby Tony » Fri Jan 14, 2011 7:33 am

Thanks both!
That's a great plan Barry .. thank you!
Beer will get you through the times of no money better than money will get you through the times of no beer (with grateful thanks to the Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers and slightly adapted)
User avatar
Tony
 
Posts: 1856
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2009 5:49 am

Yeast splitting

Postby Gipsy » Sat Dec 29, 2012 5:10 pm

Sorry for bumping this old thread but I was thinking of doing this tomorrow, these links were kindly posted on my ESB thread by Hamish, I need to make 5L of wort at 1.040 so I can multiply and split a wyeast1968 into 5x1L pet bottles, I don't have any DME so I want to use a grain mash, do you think I should make 7L at 200g per liter then pour off 5L off the grist? this is my first attemp so any advice would be great guys even if the advice is to wait till monday and get some DME! I need to get a couple of fullers clones on the go as soon as I have fermented out this wort and bottled the yeast/wort mixture, this is what I am planning on doing http://uk-homebrew.tripod.com/id45.html
Cheers

Fv1 : Amarillo
Fv2 : Amarillo
Corny 1: Fullers discovery
Corny 2: Sazz & liberty pale ale
Corny 3: - -
Corny 4: - -
Corny 5: - -
Corny 6: - -
Conditioning- nothing at the moment
User avatar
Gipsy
 
Posts: 4281
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:59 am
Location: West Sussex

Yeast splitting

Postby saracen » Sat Dec 29, 2012 5:22 pm

Use 2.5 lts of water for the mash using 1.0 kg of Pale Malt. Then, add water until you have SG about 1.045. It should give you 5 lts at 1.045, which will be fine.
You need to use starters of 1.0 lt, so make this up and leave it for 72 hours before pitching. The other bottles can be stored in the fridge.
Personally, I use 4 pt milk bottles. Make up a 4 lt solution, add the yeast, split it between 4 bottles, wait 72 hours and pitch. Cuts out all that transferring, which is always a possible route to infection.
This is written above the Pier at Walton-on-the-Naze:
"The Happiest Sound in all the World is that of Children's Laughter."

E-mail: arnyfris at gmail dot com
User avatar
saracen
 
Posts: 6489
Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2010 3:22 pm
Location: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk

Yeast splitting

Postby Gipsy » Sat Dec 29, 2012 5:26 pm

Excellent, Thanks again saracen I will start a thread and post how it goes
cheers

Fv1 : Amarillo
Fv2 : Amarillo
Corny 1: Fullers discovery
Corny 2: Sazz & liberty pale ale
Corny 3: - -
Corny 4: - -
Corny 5: - -
Corny 6: - -
Conditioning- nothing at the moment
User avatar
Gipsy
 
Posts: 4281
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:59 am
Location: West Sussex

Yeast splitting

Postby saracen » Sat Dec 29, 2012 5:28 pm

Keep it simple. Cut down on the handling.
PS: I put that Sundew tweak up, with a few mods, so if you take a look to see if I missed anything.
This is written above the Pier at Walton-on-the-Naze:
"The Happiest Sound in all the World is that of Children's Laughter."

E-mail: arnyfris at gmail dot com
User avatar
saracen
 
Posts: 6489
Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2010 3:22 pm
Location: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk

Yeast splitting

Postby Gipsy » Sat Dec 29, 2012 5:31 pm

Will have a read, cheers

Fv1 : Amarillo
Fv2 : Amarillo
Corny 1: Fullers discovery
Corny 2: Sazz & liberty pale ale
Corny 3: - -
Corny 4: - -
Corny 5: - -
Corny 6: - -
Conditioning- nothing at the moment
User avatar
Gipsy
 
Posts: 4281
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:59 am
Location: West Sussex

Yeast splitting

Postby Gipsy » Sun Dec 30, 2012 2:13 pm

Hi Saracen
I'm guessing you I just pitch the yeast and stir it and then pour directly into bottles and ferment for 72 hours with the lids loose?
Cheers

Fv1 : Amarillo
Fv2 : Amarillo
Corny 1: Fullers discovery
Corny 2: Sazz & liberty pale ale
Corny 3: - -
Corny 4: - -
Corny 5: - -
Corny 6: - -
Conditioning- nothing at the moment
User avatar
Gipsy
 
Posts: 4281
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:59 am
Location: West Sussex

Yeast splitting

Postby saracen » Sun Dec 30, 2012 2:17 pm

You got it. 72 hours, then pitch. Lids loose.
I'm not sure you will gain a lot by splitting 5 ways. It doesn't last for ever in the fridge. If you are doing 2 brews, split 4 ways. You can always split again next time, getting the freshest yeast you are able to produce. Just mix it in 4.0 lts and split between the 4 milk containers.
This is written above the Pier at Walton-on-the-Naze:
"The Happiest Sound in all the World is that of Children's Laughter."

E-mail: arnyfris at gmail dot com
User avatar
saracen
 
Posts: 6489
Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2010 3:22 pm
Location: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk

Yeast splitting

Postby Gipsy » Sun Dec 30, 2012 3:23 pm

Cheers Saracen, I just had 5L of bottled water and a 5L Demi John but as I won't be doing it that way now i may as well do 4, I'll use 2 next week and fridge 2
Cheers

Fv1 : Amarillo
Fv2 : Amarillo
Corny 1: Fullers discovery
Corny 2: Sazz & liberty pale ale
Corny 3: - -
Corny 4: - -
Corny 5: - -
Corny 6: - -
Conditioning- nothing at the moment
User avatar
Gipsy
 
Posts: 4281
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:59 am
Location: West Sussex

Yeast splitting

Postby Hamish » Sun Dec 30, 2012 4:49 pm

It can keep for several months in the fridge, I made a wheat beer from yeast that had been in the fridge for 7 months once but you have to make a starter.
I make a 2 litre starter, pitch a litre into the brew then split the remaining litre between 3 or 4 Lucozade type bottles. Then next time I brew I make another starter from one of the splits.
Planning:
Fermenting:
Maturing/Conditioning:
Drinking: shop bought stuff
User avatar
Hamish
 
Posts: 3754
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 3:06 pm

Yeast splitting

Postby Gipsy » Sun Dec 30, 2012 4:54 pm

I'm just reading up about starters, its what I'm actually doing DOH! I think I will be doing this a couple times more after reading some of these threads, makes me realise how much money I wasted and why on earth I bought two smack packs for two back to back brews :oops:

Fv1 : Amarillo
Fv2 : Amarillo
Corny 1: Fullers discovery
Corny 2: Sazz & liberty pale ale
Corny 3: - -
Corny 4: - -
Corny 5: - -
Corny 6: - -
Conditioning- nothing at the moment
User avatar
Gipsy
 
Posts: 4281
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:59 am
Location: West Sussex


Return to General Brewing Discussions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

© Brew UK Limited: Units 8 & 9, Sarum Business Park, Lancaster Rd, Old Sarum, SP4 6FB. Tel: 01722 410705.
Registered No: 6742605 / VAT No: 974616878

Contacts / Terms of Use