yeast regeneration « Brew UK Forum

yeast regeneration

1 year ago | Ian (Member)

I have been collecting and re-using yeast for about 6 months now. I simply collect some of the sludge and keep it in the fridge, then do a starter from it 3 days before brewing. I have three strains going, all wyeast, 1098 Britich Ale, 1318 London ale 3, and strong belgian ale. I am up to the 3rd generation of the first two and have noticed a few things.

The time it takes to complete fermentation is shorter, the beers are tasting better, and the sediment is more compact on the bottom of the bottle.

I guess the strains are evolving to suit my set up, water etc.

I just wanted to let you know my observationa and ask if anyone else is doing similar with similar results. Also at what point can I call these strains my own and rename them (something stupid probably!).

Drinking; Nelson's Naval, Cuckoo's Knob
Conditioning;
In FV; Wigle Waggle
plannIng; Summer with elderflower

Read responses...

Responses

Nath:

Posted 1 year ago by Moderator

I have been saving yeasts but I brew evry month or so and im always too freaked out to use em again and always buy fresh... Im a yeast pussy. What do you keep your yeast in?

Drinkin' - nowt, it's all gone

Plannin'-
Loads a beer after an upgrade!

nathbrew@gmail.com

Greg:

Posted 1 year ago by Admin

To be honest I normally use new ones as I've been trying out different strains and also don't brew that often. Saying that I've heard the similar things about the quality improving so I may have to start giving it a go.

Not sure about calling them your own but why not. I don't think the yeast police will be reading this :lol:

Tony:

Posted 1 year ago by Member

Im a yeast pussy

Me too I've often saved the yeast but then chicken out at the last minute.

yeast police

I'm sure I read somewhere that it wasn't good to use the yeast much past the 6th generation and you get too many abnormal offspring. Much like the royal family

Surely though, big breweries and yeast developers must face this problem?

Beer will get you through the times of no money better than money will get you through the times of no beer
(with grateful thanks to the Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers and slightly adapted)

saracen:

Posted 1 year ago by Moderator

Surely though, big breweries and yeast developers must face this problem?

I'm sure they do, but equally I'm sure they bring far more science to bear on the issue than scrape the sludge out of the FV and bung it in the fridge. Personally, I make up 2 lts of DME at 1040, add the WYeast sachet then split the mix into 2 x 1lts bottles. I use 1 for the brew, and keep the other to split the next time, and again, and so on. I contacted WYeast about this and they replied; "Your starter procedures are sound and it is OK to stretch your brewing dollars." I'm sure this method will keep a purer strain for longer.

Regarding the Royal Family, you could always called it Prince Edward Yeast.

If you're not living on the edge..... you're taking up too much space!!

Planning: - To get some more brews on now the weather's a bit cooler
Fermenting: - Ginger Beer experiment
Conditioning: - A normal bitter with Styrians
Drinking: - All of it!!

E-mail: arnyfris@gmail.com

Bazza:

Posted 1 year ago by Member

Just out of interest, I've read one or two places of people not using starters at all. What is the disadvantage? - Longer to start thus giving more time for nasties to enter with little CO2 to drive them off?

This lad here, for instance, doesn't make a starter for yeast whch is reused within 2-3 months;-

http://www.mikebeer.net/reuseyeast.htm

-Barry

Planning: More SNPA, more experimental cider
Fermenting: Marston's Pedigree
Conditioning (Bottles): Warsteiner Lager Clone
Drinking (King Keg): Fullers London Pride

Tony:

Posted 1 year ago by Member

you could always called it Prince Edward Yeast.

heh heh, excellent!

Guilty secret: I've never made a starter - with any yeast.

Beer will get you through the times of no money better than money will get you through the times of no beer
(with grateful thanks to the Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers and slightly adapted)

saracen:

Posted 1 year ago by Moderator

Hi Bazza

Just out of interest, I've read one or two places of people not using starters at all. What is the disadvantage? - Longer to start thus giving more time for nasties to enter with little CO2 to drive them off?

Well, there is a great deal of science attached to any microbiology, and yeast is no exception. The e-mails I've had back from WYeast sometimes defy all understanding. For instance, this came back when I referred to a 'bottom fermenting yeast'.

When you say bottom fermenter, are you using onld(sic) terminology to describe a lager strain, or are you describing a completely powdery, non-flocculent, non chain-forming ale strain?
What? Dunno. Maybe.

There is a lot of talk about pitching rates and making a starter effectively multiplies the amount of yeast cells up to much higher levels. All brewers make a starter, whether they realise it or not. As soon as you add yeast to wort, the process of multiplication starts, and, as far as i know, the yeast only starts converting sugar when the right amount of cells have been formed. all things considered, for such a small chap, this yeast is damned clever! I imagine it makes small differences, but so long as you are careful about infections, for all practical purposes, I don't suppose it makes any noticeable difference. If anyone knows otherwise, please let us know, because all knowledge is useful.

Ian:

Posted 1 year ago by Member

I like your approach Saracen. Splitting the yeast at the start is a great idea.

My observation is that the yeast has improved it's performance over the generations. Perhaps splitting at this stage
will prolong my strains from this point. As long as I don't get any infections and the beer tastes good it will be ok.

Drinking; Nelson's Naval, Cuckoo's Knob
Conditioning;
In FV; Wigle Waggle
plannIng; Summer with elderflower

mik webb:

Posted 1 year ago by Member

Ian

what do you make your starter with?

i am about to use to london 68 esb yeast in a brew and think saving some for the next brew sounds like a good idea

saracen:

Posted 1 year ago by Moderator

I've just used the 68 esb in a brew and very good it was. I split it before I started as I described above and I'm just about to split it again.

Ian:

Posted 1 year ago by Member

I make my starter pretty much as outlined by many others. I sanitise my vessel, which is a 1litre tonic water bottle (seems to work ok). Then I put 400 ml water in a
clean pan, add 4 tablespoons of light dry malt extract, then simmer for 10 minutes. This is then cooled in a sink with some cold water. Once it is down to 25 c then
pour it into the bottle and add the yeast from the fridge. Pop on anair lock then incubate for about 24 to 48 hours in the warm.
Then just pitch it into the wort. Fermentation the seems to start pretty much immediately and goes steadily to completion.

Drinking; Nelson's Naval, Cuckoo's Knob
Conditioning;
In FV; Wigle Waggle
plannIng; Summer with elderflower

Gazz:

Posted 1 year ago by Member

I like your style Ian.

Im thinking of taking this approach myself. How often do you brew or how long can you refridgerate the yeast for?
How much yeast do you add back into your new brew?

I popped into Bath ales last week and got chatting to their lab guy, he told me that every fermenter produces 5 times more yeast than introduced. Most of it goes down the drain & they even give some away to homebrewers! Again they re-generate theirs. They also send some off to labatories to get frozen or kryogenically something something, just incase their main strain goes titts up they always have a back up to keep their brews so consistant.
I suppose brewing 5 times a week you do need a fail safe system!
One thing I cant understand is why they would want to give their very good quality yeast away to other people, I mean what if I where to start my own brewery :twisted:

mik webb:

Posted 1 year ago by Member

thanks i'll do that

what do you keep the yeast in - when its dormant - in the fridge? any old sterile bottle?

saracen:

Posted 1 year ago by Moderator

Hi Ian

I make my starter pretty much as outlined by many others. I sanitise my vessel, which is a 1litre tonic water bottle (seems to work ok). Then I put 400 ml water in a
clean pan, add 4 tablespoons of light dry malt extract, then simmer for 10 minutes

The only thing I would add to the above is that yeast manufacturers always suggest a starter should be made in a fermentable solution at SG1040. Not sure what 4 tbsp in 400 ml works out at. If you use a larger quantity, you will grow more yeast cells and get an even quicker fermentation. Do you drain the DME solution off before adding the yeast to your brew?

Ian:

Posted 1 year ago by Member

Fascinating insight from bath. I keep meaning to pop in and see Stig who owns and runs Stonehenge ales which is just down the road from me.

I brew about once a month. The longest I have left yeast in the fridge is three months. Even after that long it kicked straight back in after 24 hours at 20 ish C.
I store the yeast in a small jam jar style glass jar that I sanitise well before putting in the yeast. Interesting points on volume and gravity of the starter. I think it was either Greg or GWs book that suggested 4 tablespoons would work.
In terms of volume this seems to work well and I have plenty of tonic water bottles kicking about. Don't
know how they got that way.....now where did all that gin go...

Drinking; Nelson's Naval, Cuckoo's Knob
Conditioning;
In FV; Wigle Waggle
plannIng; Summer with elderflower

Nath:

Posted 1 year ago by Moderator

Nice brewery, Bunces. I won a case of Danish Dynamite from them a year ago and was well impressed. Must go down again, a short brewery tour when you think about it, but quality beer.

Drinkin' - nowt, it's all gone

Plannin'-
Loads a beer after an upgrade!

nathbrew@gmail.com

saracen:

Posted 1 year ago by Moderator

Ian. Just noticed something in your post about a yeast starter. No 11.

Once it is down to 25 c then pour it into the bottle and add the yeast from the fridge.

Do you mean you take yeast from the fridge at about 6c and add it straight into a bottle of solution at 25c? If you do, your asking for trouble. You should always equalise the temperatures of the yeast and the fermentable solution otherwise you can do dreadful things to the yeast.

Ian:

Posted 1 year ago by Member

Hi Saracen
Sorry should have said. I take the yeast out about an hour before pitching to bring the temp up to match the wort.
Don't want to shock the little angels!

Drinking; Nelson's Naval, Cuckoo's Knob
Conditioning;
In FV; Wigle Waggle
plannIng; Summer with elderflower

saracen:

Posted 1 year ago by Moderator

That's the word! Shock. I couldn't think of it. Yeast Shock. You know, as I get older I can remember the sixties clearly.... but 5 minutes ago..... what was I writing?

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