Brew UK Forum | Beer Kits
Barrelling Wherry question
Will a Wherry kit need C02 adding at any time during the drinking phase?
My barrel arrived with two lids, one of which can accommodate an injection of C02. Is this for lagers only or needed toward the end of the Wherry?
Also does Wherry bottle well? I guess the taste will be quite different?
Fermenting; Golden Lager, St Peters Golden
Conditioning; Diabolo, TTL
Planning; SNPA
Drinking; Headcracker, Pinot Grigio, WTA
Conditioning; Diabolo, TTL
Planning; SNPA
Drinking; Headcracker, Pinot Grigio, WTA
Responses
Posted 1 year ago by Member
CO2 injection for pressure barrels is purely to maintain freshness. The carbonation level of your beer will depend on how much priming sugar you add, the added CO2 simply forces the beer out the tap and creates equilibrium to stop air coming in the tap and spoiling your brew.
In the case of Cornelius Kegs, the injection of CO2 is at much higher pressure than a pressure barrel can withstand, and the gas is absorbed into the beer to produce "forced carbonation" (there is no priming sugar), much the same way as soft drinks are made fizzy without fermenting some sugar.
As for bottles, I've never made a Wherry kit so I'll leave that to others.
Fermenting: Damson pale
Conditioning: Morello Cherry Lambic 2
Drinking: Schneider Weisse Tap 7 clone, Morello Cherry Lambic 1, Rauchbier
Posted 1 year ago by Member
Hi Mate, I have bottled some Wherrys and it was good, its handy in the summer as you can put in the fridge! ( be careful as you may get a small amount of sediment so keep upright). Another reason you might want to bottle is if you want to take some to a party or BBQ ( not in this water).
Posted 1 year ago by Member
(not in this weather) sorry
Posted 1 year ago by Member
Thanks chaps
I am starting another Wherry today which I will bottle this time round (as I only have one barrel anyway).
K
Conditioning; Diabolo, TTL
Planning; SNPA
Drinking; Headcracker, Pinot Grigio, WTA
Posted 1 year ago by Moderator
Just a lil' note - I would always use the co2 cap from the beginning as when the natural co2 you will need to replace the co2 to ensure the beer actually comes out of the barrel. If its a standard or king keg barrel you will never produce "fizzy" type lagers as the barrels them selves only hold to 6-8psi, that level will never carb your beers like a lager.
Plannin'-
Loads a beer after an upgrade!
nathbrew@gmail.com
Posted 1 year ago by Member
Thanks........ looks like I've cocked up!
In general how much is left in the barrel when the c02 needs adding to let the beer come out?
Also, it's been barrelled now for a day, should I change the cap asap? Or is it too late and I will be in the situation where I'll need to remove the cap and drink the rest of the barrel in one go?
Or should I add more sugar to replace the lost c02 when replacing the cap?
Sorry for all the questions.
Conditioning; Diabolo, TTL
Planning; SNPA
Drinking; Headcracker, Pinot Grigio, WTA
Posted 1 year ago by Moderator
That depends entirely on how much priming sugar you used. The more sugar, the more Co2, the more pressure and the more beer it will displace. Don't remove the cap yet. Wait until the pressure has almost run out and change the cap then. Inject a bulb of Co2 and it's nomally reckoned to be good for dispensing about 7 to 10 pints.
Nice idea! No, best not. No need to if you inject the Co2
No. If you do that you'll start another ferment off and have to wait a few weeks for it to clear again.
Keep at it. You're doing well.
You might like to try my proven method for making Wherry better than it already is;
1) Make the kit to 37 pints
2) Add 250 gms of Dried Malt Extract to the boiling water in the FV, then the cans of Malt Extract.
3) Throw 10 to 30 gms of Goldings hops (depending on how ‘hoppy’ you like it) into the FV after 3 days when the initial (primary) fermentation has slowed and leave them there for at least 7 days while the beer ferments.
Using hops at this stage is known as “Dry Hopping” which involves adding hops to the fermenter or keg after fermentation. The technique adds the fragile aromatic oils that are normally lost in the boiling process. Dry hops are allowed to soak in the finished beer for anywhere from several days to several weeks. The result is a burst of hoppy aroma but it does not affect the bitterness of your beer.
It doesn’t have to be Goldings hops. They will give you the traditional English bitter aroma, but something like Nelson Sauvin will give you a crushed gooseberry aroma, or Amarillo for a flowery, citrus aroma
This method really does lift the beer and gives it a lovely hoppy 'nose'.
Planning: - To get some more brews on now the weather's a bit cooler
Fermenting: - Ginger Beer experiment
Conditioning: - A normal bitter with Styrians
Drinking: - All of it!!
E-mail: arnyfris@gmail.com
Posted 1 year ago by Moderator
Leave the cap on and wait till the beer just doesn't pour well, this could be in a weeks time or if ya lucky you may only need it near the end of a barrel. When you do swap it over just take the old one off and put the new one on (with plenty of Vaseline to ensure a snug fit), then charge up with co2 and hey presto! The beer wont go bad just for changing the cap. There is a layer of co2 over the beer so as long as you don't blow into the barrel all will be fine!
Plannin'-
Loads a beer after an upgrade!
nathbrew@gmail.com
Posted 1 year ago by Member
Thanks gents, thought I'd blown it.
Conditioning; Diabolo, TTL
Planning; SNPA
Drinking; Headcracker, Pinot Grigio, WTA
Posted 1 year ago by Moderator
Once beer is beer (ie - past the fermentation process) its quite hard to kill, but all too easy to drink!
Plannin'-
Loads a beer after an upgrade!
nathbrew@gmail.com
Posted 1 year ago by Member
Hi pal,
When I done my first Wherry I used the CO2 cannister about halfway through drinking it, wasn't sure if it needed it or not!!
Done a few brews in the barrel since (including another Wherry and a NOG) and I found I enjoyed the beer more without the inclusion of CO2 (found it easier to drink more)
If this is your first brew you could try it with the CO2 and without on your next, find out what you prefer. Either way will be Uber drinkable.
Fermenting - Coopers Canadian Blonde
Conditioning - Coopers Pilsner, Coopers English Bitter
Drinking - None
Posted 1 year ago by Member
Getting confused now..
So, the beer still comes out during the latter stages of drinking regardless of reduced c02 pressure?
I am still getting my head round the fact that the c02 layer sits over the beer in the FV without mixing with the oxygen (and nitrogen) in the air inches above.
Another one that confuses me is the the barrel you get with the tap at the top end!!!????!!
My physics O level didn't prepare me for this.
Conditioning; Diabolo, TTL
Planning; SNPA
Drinking; Headcracker, Pinot Grigio, WTA
Posted 1 year ago by Member
some barrels have float inside attached to the tap by a pipe,which let's the beer come from the tap at the top
end of the barrel.
Posted 1 year ago by Moderator
The Co2 produced by the priming sugar pushes the beer out under pressure. When the gas (pressure) runs out, there will be a vacuum in the barrel and the beer will not come out on its own. If you allow air into the barrel by bubbling back through the tap, you will stir up the sediment and introduce air into the beer which will turn it bad. If, on the other hand, you loosen the cap, air will be let in from the top and the Co2 layer over the beer will protect it.
Planning: - To get some more brews on now the weather's a bit cooler
Fermenting: - Ginger Beer experiment
Conditioning: - A normal bitter with Styrians
Drinking: - All of it!!
E-mail: arnyfris@gmail.com
Posted 1 year ago by Member
Thanks all.
Conditioning; Diabolo, TTL
Planning; SNPA
Drinking; Headcracker, Pinot Grigio, WTA
Posted 1 year ago by Member
Hi all am back again Have never had to add CO2 to wherry amd its a nice beer. Will be starting one at the end of the week and will try that tip (hops etc) from saracen.
5 gal St Peters Golden Ale as per tin
Youngs Harvest Mild
all a bit moded
Posted 1 year ago by Moderator
Hi Peter. Good to see you're back.
When you add the hops to your Wherry you can use any aroma hop. The only reason I use Goldings is that it is such a traditional aroma. If you use Golding try upping the quantity to 10 gms to give even more aroma. It's all about trying things out and learning from it.
Planning: - To get some more brews on now the weather's a bit cooler
Fermenting: - Ginger Beer experiment
Conditioning: - A normal bitter with Styrians
Drinking: - All of it!!
E-mail: arnyfris@gmail.com
Posted 1 year ago by Member
Hi Saracen I will try that and tell you how it goes
5 gal St Peters Golden Ale as per tin
Youngs Harvest Mild
all a bit moded
Posted 1 year ago by Member
Didn't know whether to start a new string or continue the original so went with the latter.
Wherry was a looking superb, drawn off two pints, tasted wonderful, looked like another week was needed or so to clear fully but was quite happy to quaff.
Head stayed to the bottom of the glass... for a first attempt, very pleased indeeed.
Then, third pint didn't come out so lively and air started to glug back through the tap.
Now this might have resulted from something I did the day after barrelling; I noticed there was a small leak from the tap so turned the barrel on its side and removed it and screwed it back in - leak gone. I had thought that the priming was yet to finish but I guess it already had, hence the subsequent pressure loss.
So after reading everything posted on this site I assume I have some options;
Re-prime with more sugar and wait another week before having another go (quite happy to do that)
Apply regular c02 canisters to keep pressure up (not so keen).
Apply one c02 canister, and loosen cap when drawing off (assuming the c02 layer will save the beer)
Bottle now and barrel second batch which is currently in FV
Drink it all as soon as poss (quite happy to try but I fear I would explode)
Suggestions please.
Conditioning; Diabolo, TTL
Planning; SNPA
Drinking; Headcracker, Pinot Grigio, WTA
Posted 1 year ago by Member
I had a prob with a keg of Admirals Reserve befor xmas What I had not done was replace the vaseline on the keg cap. The beer was ok
5 gal St Peters Golden Ale as per tin
Youngs Harvest Mild
all a bit moded
Posted 1 year ago by Member
Thanks Peter
I don't think I have the same prob, my cap is airtight, otherwise there'd be no glugging of air back in through the tap which I think will make the beer bad before I get time to finish it. In your example, you had a layer of c02 above the beer keeping it fresh and air coming in through the tap.
I suspect that I lost c02 after tampering with the leaking tap (or lost c02 through it?).
So I need to either introduce c02 (reprime or canister) or release the cap to allow air in and the beer out without oxygenating...... I think. I could be totally wrong, it's all new to me.
Conditioning; Diabolo, TTL
Planning; SNPA
Drinking; Headcracker, Pinot Grigio, WTA
Posted 1 year ago by Member
The last word in paragraph one above should read 'cap' and not 'tap'.
Conditioning; Diabolo, TTL
Planning; SNPA
Drinking; Headcracker, Pinot Grigio, WTA
Posted 1 year ago by Member
the odd thing was that I was getting air in via the tap too but that stoped when I did the cap but it was near the end of the beer. How much is left in the keg?
5 gal St Peters Golden Ale as per tin
Youngs Harvest Mild
all a bit moded
Posted 1 year ago by Member
I have only had three pints out of it, there's 34 left.
Conditioning; Diabolo, TTL
Planning; SNPA
Drinking; Headcracker, Pinot Grigio, WTA
Posted 1 year ago by Member
I am a bit of a new boy too but I think I would go for the co2.
5 gal St Peters Golden Ale as per tin
Youngs Harvest Mild
all a bit moded
Posted 1 year ago by Moderator
Hey guys!
kilconlea - Use a single co2 canister (sparklet one) and see how many pints you get out over a few days. The co2 will not leak from the tap as its under the beer. If it was leaking then it it would leak beer not co2. The cap is the most likely problem. Lots of vasaline around the thread and do not over tighten! You dont need to loosen the cap when drawing off just draw the pint off slowly.
Plannin'-
Loads a beer after an upgrade!
nathbrew@gmail.com
Posted 1 year ago by Moderator
Hi there. Vaseline to help the cap seal is a good idea. I also coat the black washer between the tap and the barrel. The most important place for the Vaseline is on the seal inside the cap. Be careful! Too much can make the seal slip out of it's groove and get trapped between the cap and the neck of the barrle, ruining the seal. If the seal looks a bit secondhand, pour some boiling water from the kettle into a jug and drop the seal in. It usually comes back to its original shape. If the cap is sealing properly you should not have to screw it on too tight, just hand tight without putting any big effort in it. Overtigthening can damage to seal and cause a leak that way. When you clean a barrel, remove the cap seal from its groove and drop the cap and seal into a jug of water from the kettle. This will remove all traces of Vaseline. Dry the cap and seal very thoroughly before re-fitting the seal, otherwise it may slip out of the seating.
Planning: - To get some more brews on now the weather's a bit cooler
Fermenting: - Ginger Beer experiment
Conditioning: - A normal bitter with Styrians
Drinking: - All of it!!
E-mail: arnyfris@gmail.com
Posted 1 year ago by Member
Thanks Guys
Think I may have confused the issue with my post above (mixing tap with cap).
The barrel is new. I vaselined the cap prior to tightening and I don't think I overdid it.
I think I lost c02 when removing and replacing the leaking TAP the day after barreling.
The first 2 pints came out with force, the third as a trickle with air glugging back in. Is it possible I lost the c02 which had been produced during the first day of secondary fermentation when playing with the TAP?
Conditioning; Diabolo, TTL
Planning; SNPA
Drinking; Headcracker, Pinot Grigio, WTA
Posted 1 year ago by Moderator
Yep, when you recplaced the tap it would have let out all pressure and then there probably wasnt much sugar left over from priming to give you much pressure. Add some co2 and all will be fine.
Plannin'-
Loads a beer after an upgrade!
nathbrew@gmail.com
Posted 1 year ago by Member
Thanks Nath.
Added c02 and guess what, tap leaking. It's either faulty or I've under/over-tightened.
I shall turn it on its side, re-screw the tap and then either;
add more c02 (assuming the canister holds more than one shot?)
or
as I will have already upset the sediment, re-prime with sugar and wait a week (would this work?)
monitoring the tap in either case
Conditioning; Diabolo, TTL
Planning; SNPA
Drinking; Headcracker, Pinot Grigio, WTA
Posted 1 year ago by Moderator
Is it leaking from the tap or around the tap seal? If its from the tap, make sure you only turn it to the 90 degress position. If you turn the tap all the way off (to the barrel) it will leak. If you use a co2 canister then it will have plenty left in it, if its a "sparklet" (small silver cansainer) then it will be spent. You only need 1-2 seconds if your using a big canister (hamelton bard size). You can use sugar again if ya want though.
Plannin'-
Loads a beer after an upgrade!
nathbrew@gmail.com
Posted 1 year ago by Member
It's from the seal.
Conditioning; Diabolo, TTL
Planning; SNPA
Drinking; Headcracker, Pinot Grigio, WTA
Posted 1 year ago by Moderator
Hmmm they can distort under high pressure so I would keep an eye when adding co2 and just release enough excess co2 until the tap stops dripping.
Plannin'-
Loads a beer after an upgrade!
nathbrew@gmail.com
Posted 1 year ago by Member
I've drawn off a couple of pints (into a jug in the fridge for later) and the leak seems to have subsided. There's some kitchen towel under the seal to detect any further leakage.
If the towel's wet later on, I think I'll bottle the lot and inspect the barrel/tap when empty.
I have another barrel on order and another Wherry ready to barrel in a couple of days, if the same occurs with that then it's something I'm doing wrong. If new one's okay then I'll get a new tap for the old one.
Conditioning; Diabolo, TTL
Planning; SNPA
Drinking; Headcracker, Pinot Grigio, WTA
Posted 1 year ago by Moderator
Hi. You can end up in a lot of trouble with barrels. It took me several attempts to get it all working and not leaking. Take a look again at my Post 27 here. I still get leaks from the tap seal, but drawing off a pint or so usually stops it. It's the Co2 pressure. I made the classic mistake in the beginning of doing the tap and cap up as tight as I could and only made things worse. You shouldn't need a new tap, but it's good to have a spare. Get some new sealing rings for the cap and the tap.
Planning: - To get some more brews on now the weather's a bit cooler
Fermenting: - Ginger Beer experiment
Conditioning: - A normal bitter with Styrians
Drinking: - All of it!!
E-mail: arnyfris@gmail.com
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